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Message started by koloheukulele on Apr 3rd, 2002 at 3:47pm

Title: Inlay Stuffs
Post by koloheukulele on Apr 3rd, 2002 at 3:47pm
Inaly Stuffs
     Ideas, secrets, techniques, tips, tricks, materials, anything about inalys/rosettes drop a line here.

Just finished a big inlay top bout treble side.  Had problems with wood warping.  Braced with spruce, better, but still warpped shoto.  Anybody doing inlays at the upper bout treble side had similar problems?  Will it hold up when I box up or will it sag?

As for tips I would say No Scared, Just Press, and learn how fo squint your eyes real hard!  One tip foreal, when coming up with things to inlay I look at magazines.  I take a picture I like and photo copy it to black and white.  Then cut um up and glue to the wood or what ever I'm using.  The rest is open to your mind and your patience.  Good Luck that's about all for now.
     Kay, aJ

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by oscarskoi on Apr 6th, 2002 at 8:30am
yep  got to go slow and listen to slow easy kine music so you no go fast an rip. :D as for squinting I ordered the headband magnifier, looks kind of funny but it works real good then you going always  use it, say mike whens the inlay class sign me up

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by achock on Apr 18th, 2002 at 9:26pm
Just a reminder...

    For those of you interested in seeing some custom inlay and Rosette work, there will be a demonstration held this Sunday, April 21st 1:00 p.m.  at the Hana Lima shop (718 Pu'uhale rd.)

     Vince Yagi and Mike Chock will be setting up some samples and insight.  Bring your own pupus and get comfortable for an afternoon of Ukulele detailing.  

*This event is open only to Ukulele Guild of Hawaii members.... Please call Mike ahead of time: (847-1541)


Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by MIke chock on May 21st, 2002 at 10:09am
Heres an inlay tip as far as tools go....Son Asa has been inlaying like a bat out of hell...using his art background to his advantage...Here's his tip:   Get yer design and transfer outline onto workpiece...scribe jes inside of traced line with exacto Knife or single edged razor...then route out design with Dremmell using a clear plexi base...can see mo bettah  and a small air blower...da kine for fish tanks...really helps to blow away dust..hard to blow wen get dust mask on. On Dremell we use a sixteenth inch spiral bit.


the inlay part is cut out with a jewelers saw...slowly and vertically up and down stroke....make the inlay part first...then  scribe to workpiece.....route jes to the scribe line........insert inlay....should be a bit big....can use small kine dowels...wrapped with sandpaper to slowly sand away tight spots along perimeter of the routed piece....fit till tight.                 later  ukeman

ps  the burr bits for the dremmell  ....not so good...use the spiral bits

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by achock on May 27th, 2002 at 6:50pm
Hey all, creating an inlay is a nice balance between designing and doing.  Once you have an idea you want to go with, it's good fun to see it transformed into a tangible object... ahhh, there is something about wood.

Here's the Dremel/fishpump blower setup.  I still have to clear the dust away every once in a while but the fishpump keeps the dust off the pattern line and thats what counts.

working from the inside I slowly work my way to the edges of the design untill about half a bits width away...  Then clear out all the dust and make one final pass from right to left.  The last little bit just peels aways and you get a nice clean edge and uniform depth for the inlay piece.

This is a recently finished 'Taro' inlay...


stuck inside....  


P.S.  I didn't do this taro sucka in one day..in fact took 5 days.  It's really hard to rush something like this cause it's too picky and too easy to make a mistake...it can make your eyes sore very fast and if yer not paying close attention...whoops sanded too much etc..start-over.  I just went real slow and took plenty breaks.  Hopefully it gets faster with experience.... we'll see  ;D

.....Should be posting some pics of the latest projects down at the shop soon.

-asa

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by grasshopper on May 28th, 2002 at 5:38pm
Hooooooo Awesome :)  Very nice and looks so clean too.  And such original ideas.  Post  the ika too when you pau and get time.  One of these days when I get really, really inspired (and some talent wouldn't hurt either), then maybe, but till then......... just gotta stick to the same old  :-[ .........

Keep up the awesome work and I like see the finished uke too.  If anything like the inlay, going be awesome.

Later,
gh

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by oscarskoi on May 28th, 2002 at 8:23pm
wow thats good stuff   talk about patience would like to see the finish product  too    awesome

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by oscarskoi on May 29th, 2002 at 8:35pm
WOW some awesome stuff  :o stopped by the shop today to check it out   and  ........ wow what can I say  good stuff
the uke stands look great also

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by bighawaiian on May 27th, 2003 at 1:32pm
I get 1 question about the bits you guys use for rout the inlay grooves the spiral kine or down cut bit I guess thats what its called? get that over here in honolulu or gotta order from da mainland?


Mahalo ;D

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by grasshopper on Jun 1st, 2003 at 8:46pm
Yo Beeg K,

Hea, try look dis site.  http://www.stewmac.com/cgi-bin/hazel.cgi?action=SERVE&ITEM=catalog/sku.html&S1=Tools&SS1=Routing_bits&sku=5150  
Some bits from stewmac....easy fo orda online and no need worry about credit card.  Like I tell everybody, when you orda online, jus make sure the http get one "s" like "https".  Dat means its a secure connection.  Dats on the part wea you put your credit card #.  Maybe get bits on dis rock but I don't know wea.  Anyway, easy fo orda online and stewmac ordas cum in less dan 1 week, even wit the cheapest shipping.   Da bits kina expensive  :'(  but betta dan doing um wit 1 chisal.  You can check out www.lmii.com too.  You probably like get different sizes too cause you like the small ones to get in the corners and edges.   The bigga 1s you can use fo hog out da middle parts.  So you probably like get a bunch of sizes even if cost some $$$.  Or you can digum out wit 1 chisal.  Good luck on your inlays and no forget post um on dis site so us guys can check um out.

Lata,  gh

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by david on Jun 1st, 2003 at 8:50pm
yo grasshopper
            you da bes    ;D

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by bighawaiian on Jun 2nd, 2003 at 7:12am
Mahalo Nui  Grasshopper I goin try get em ;D

I show you guys when pau

Da Beeg kanaka

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by achock on Aug 4th, 2003 at 10:36am
Whoa, I missed all that completely! Thank you Grasshopper for your excellent response.  

Yep, sorry for the delay Big H...we do indeed use the spiral type bit for the dremel.  It gives a nicer cut than the straight type, but both will work fine.  The dremel is moving so fast it just eats up the wood.  In fact, here are some pictures of the dremel and routerbase attachment we use:
 

Back view of the hightech 'micro' adjustment system..


Close up of the spiral type bit we're using



More inlay pics soon....
-asa


Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by ukeman on Aug 4th, 2003 at 2:14pm
One postscript to asa's response...you can add a portable air pump with one 1/8th inch plastic hose and tape the hose to the dremell..will blow away all the dust you are hoggin out with the dremmell and can see much better....one simple air pump from a fishin supply should cost under ten dollars with the batteries...beats blowing especially when ya got a dust mask on....have fun inlaying  laters ukeman

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by ukeman on Aug 12th, 2003 at 7:27pm
hello out there! Thought I'd drop a line of encouragement and advice on this art of Inlaying...its really a lot of fun, very anal, yet very satisfying. Its fun to pick out and execute a design and have it embedded in your piece for all to see. Makes the uke very special and keeps the creative juices flowing. My advise is to start an inlay right away but use a scap piece of 1/4 " ply as your trail sheet and pick out a scap piece of veneer and draw some designs., on paper..copy the design with a copying machine, glue the copy on a veneer piece and..use a jewelers saw and practise the cut and you will be surprised how controllable the saw is.Keep your saw blade vertical...cut up and down and stroke lightly and follow the outline of your copy. Touch up the cut out piece with needle files or fine sandpaper.

Now trace your cutout piece on to the ply practise board ..to create a fine line I bevel the lead on me mechanical pencil with 220 sandpaper and draw a fine rim line. I use a single edge razor blade to score the outline a shade inside the pencil line.Repeat the score line several times to get it a hair deper everytime...now when you chisel or dremmell the shape it will peel away nicely before you reach the scoreline..if the dremell hits the line you will go beyond the line and be a bit wiggly...secret is to stay inside the scored line and make sure the score line is cut a tad deep....If ya did this right the piece will not fit in the recess but be a tad tight....ass nice..now you can either work the piece bit by bit with files or sandpaper or work the recess bit by bit.. various sized dowels with sandpaper wrapped on its ends make nice sanding nibblers to follow a curved outline..take your time and it will fit right nice....anyway..best to jump in and get wet and you will find that it is not all that difficult...later   ukeman

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by Matthew John Bascetta on Aug 14th, 2003 at 3:34pm
anyone know anything about turquoise chip inlay?  cheers,
-Matthew

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by ukeman on Aug 14th, 2003 at 4:59pm
hey mathew...here's a method i used for crushed coral rosette inlays... start with a thick soundboard and route the rosette channel to the depth and thickness of your choice. .layer a coat of crushed coral or turquoise chips into the channel and arrange the bits so that they are as uniform as you can get it and covers all the routed channel...wick in thin super glue into the channel over the layer of inlay bits and let dry...continue layer on layer until you are level with the soundboard...you can now fill the voids with coats of superglue...(many) or with a mixture of clear resin and catalyst...puncture the bubbles with the tip of a sharp needle....now heres the cautious part...as you sand to level your rosette..the tiny particles of inlay bits can breakfree and lodge twixt the soundboard and sanding block and cause scratches...so start your inlay work on a thicker than normal soundboard and you'll have more sanding room for scratch removals...also sand carefully and blow out the debris often....the result is stunning and pretty easy to accomplish....another substitute material is a product called Inlace...sold at most woodcraft supply stores..its a 2 part mixture that simulates stone colors and patterns and applies like a resin into a routed channel...get out yer piece of ply and practise a rosette pattern with your turquoise bits...should come out right nice..tho i suspect the turquoise with require lots of sanding.....hope this helps...ukeman

ps...any voids after finish sanding can be filled with coats of superglue and careful sanding and scraping.

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by lefty on Oct 21st, 2007 at 1:37pm
Howdy all,
 Can anyone tell me where I can get a base like this for my Dremel?  I know it is probably customized.  Can't seem to figure out how to attach the Dremel to the clear plastic without paying way too much money.

Thanks,
Lefty

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by lefty on Oct 31st, 2007 at 8:19am
Just me again.  Looking for a response to that age old musical question..."Where can I get a Dremel base like this."  I can't find it at the Dremel web site.

Thanks,
Lefty

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by Likeke on Oct 31st, 2007 at 11:44am
I made my own from 1/4" lexan.  A 3/4" female pvc connector will screw onto the end of the dremel.  This is glued into a piece of lexan.  Merely connect this piece to a base piece of lexan with a couple of panhead stainless steel bolts.  The base piece will have a hole cut in it for the bit to pass through.  Regards Likeke

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by lefty on Oct 31st, 2007 at 5:15pm
Likeke,
 Thanks for the tip.  I will give it a try.   :D
Lefty

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by Erfunden on Dec 4th, 2007 at 7:19am
I have an inlay question.  Can you inlay with metal instead of wood or shell?  I suppose you could inlay things like the head with pretty much anything.  But would metal be too heavy or stiff to use on the soundboard without effecting the sound in someway?

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by Don_Orgeman on Dec 5th, 2007 at 12:01pm
Lefty:

Look at the Sears Plunge Router Attachment ($29.99).

Plunge mechanism works well and depth stop is great.  Visibility of cut is good with the clear base and opening.

Edge guide is okay, but could use fine adjustment feature.  Perhaps replacing smoothe rod with threaded rod and stop nuts.

Circle cutting guide is totally useless for ukulele rosette cutting.  You can't adjust the radius of the cut down to 1 1/2 inches for a rosette inlay. Also, pivot pin fit is sloppy and needs to be redrilled and replaced with a good fitting pin.

Don

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by lefty on Dec 10th, 2007 at 11:04am
Hi Don,
 Thanks for the tip on the Sears Dremel base.  I will check it out.  In the mean time I took Likeke's tip and made a base out of a 1/2" pvc fitting and some Lexan type material.
Here are a few photos...






I hope these photos post.

Lefty

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by lefty on Dec 10th, 2007 at 11:10am
Here is an adjustable base I made for cutting rosettes and sound holes.  The piece of wood sticking out of the base is "T" shaped and slides in and out.  It can be locked into position by tightening the cap screw on the top of the base.  This goes through a "T" nut and locks the wood.  On the bottom of the wooden strip is a centering pin that goes through a hole in your soundboard and into a work board.  Hope that makes sense.









Lefty

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by Don_Orgeman on Dec 10th, 2007 at 12:31pm
Lefty:

Like your version of Likeke's base.  Nice and simple.  How do you adjust depth -- loosen and lower the bit or twist the router in the pipe sleeve a tad?  Wish I had seen this before I bought the Sears base, which can also be gotten from cpodremel for slightly less than Sears charges.

Nice looking circle cutting guide.  Very professional looking.  Looks like a laminate trimmer and 1/4 inch bit installed.  If you need 1/8 spiral cutting bits (either up cut or down cut) that fit 1/4 inch shaft routers, a good source is MLCS Woodworking (www.mclswoodworkinjg.com)

Price is reasonable and shipping is free.

Question for Lefty and the group:

For cutting rosettes is it better to use a down cut spiral bit (to avoid fuzz on the surface edges) or up cut spiral bit (to help remove chips from a narrow 1/8 inch rosette trough)?  I have both bits, and am leaning toward the down cut feeling the chips will be discharged behind the cut.

Don

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by Don_Orgeman on Dec 10th, 2007 at 12:34pm
Lefty:

Oops, typo in email link.  Should be

www.mlcswoodworking.com

Don

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by lefty on Dec 10th, 2007 at 7:28pm

Howdy Don,
 Thanks for the kind words.  To adjust the depth of cut you have to unscrew the Dremel from the base and change the bit height by loosening the collet.
 What I do is put the bit in the collet and just hand tighten.  Then screw on the base and check the height.  Of course it's wrong, so I remove the base.  Before I loosen the collet I make a mark on the bit with a Sharpie where it enters the collet.  Then loosen and try again.  The Sharpie mark gives me a reference point.
 Once I have the right depth I tighten the collet with a wrench and "Get er done."

 Thanks for the tip on the bits.  As far as up or down spiral, I use the down spiral.  If there is going to be any tearout I would rather have it on the inside of the soundboard.

 Thanks again for the info,
                    Lefty

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by Don_Orgeman on Dec 13th, 2007 at 4:02pm
Help needed!

I purchased the abalone rosette from Hana Lima.  Very nice rosette, but the ends of the rosette pieces are random cut, and need to be reshaped to fit the rosette radial lines.

What is the best way to cut or sand the ends of the one inch long rosette pieces to make a continuous ring?

Don

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by Ukeman on Dec 13th, 2007 at 4:27pm
aloha don, the ukeman keeps things simple...a sanding block with 120-grit and deft strokes will handle the end s with no problem...and quicker than you think as well....laters ukeman

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by lefty on Dec 16th, 2007 at 3:20pm
Hi Don,
 Here is what I did for my rosette.  

I cut two channels into a scrap of wood with my rosette base.  I then cut off half of one of the rosettes. Slip a piece of the rosette material into the half circle and sand off the edge with a sanding block.  Works like a shooting board.  I was amazed how easy it was to sand.  I was very happy with the fit.





Hope this helps,
     Lefty

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by Don_Orgeman on Dec 17th, 2007 at 4:08am
Lefty:

Nice pictures and great planning.  I did the same thing (half circle) but without the second holding ring.  Its amazing how well the pieces fit together with this simple jig.  I used a padded sanding block on the first end I tried, but it left a slightly rounded cut, so I switched to 120 grit on a wood block and it worked great and fast.

Have to go out today and get some thin super glue to glue the abalone into the top.

Don

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by lefty on Dec 18th, 2007 at 8:08pm

Don,
 Glad to hear it worked.  Yep, I used a block of wood with no backing.

Lefty

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by Wood_Butcher on Dec 26th, 2007 at 2:08am
Lefty,

Was checking out the post with your rosette cutting jig.  Could you tell me what tool you have that mounted on?  Talking about the orange one with the clear base.  Looks like a good tool.  Are you happy with it?

Thanks,

Mark

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by lefty on Dec 28th, 2007 at 2:41pm
Hi Mark,
 The base is mounted on a small laminate trimmer I bought at Harbor Freight for about $19,00.  It works great.  Very happy with it.

http://search.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/web/search.do?keyword=router



Lefty

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by Don_Orgeman on Dec 29th, 2007 at 10:14am
Does anyone use the Dremel 10.8 volt lithium ion router for inlay work.  If so, how does it work?  It would seem that cutting the cord would be a great advantage, particularly when making the swing for a rosette.  I always seem to get tangled in the cord when cutting rosette channels with my router.

Don

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by Wood_Butcher on Dec 29th, 2007 at 4:44pm
Hey Lefty,

Thanks for the reply.  I thought I recognized that distinctive Chicago orange!  At that price it seems affordable to have designated tools for each function.

Mark

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by lefty on Dec 30th, 2007 at 7:36pm
Mark,
 For a $20.00 router it does great.  It is much easier to adjust than my Porter Cable.  I am going to buy a couple more and dedicate them for different jobs.

Keep building,
  Lefty

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by Don_Orgeman on Jan 4th, 2008 at 8:42am
Hey All--

The deal on these routers got even better.  I purchased this router from the Minneapolis Harbor Freight store, and it was defective.  When I returned it for an exchange today, they gave me the upcoming in store sale price of $17.99 for the replacement.

Here's a hint:  If its on sale on their web page, print the page with the sale price and take it to the store.  They'll give you the same price.

Don

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by lefty on Jan 6th, 2008 at 12:24pm
Don,

Just curious.  What was defective about the trim router?

Lefty

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by Don_Orgeman on Jan 6th, 2008 at 5:07pm
Lefty:

The attachment for flush trimming of laminate had the screw that supports the roller drilled and tapped so it wasn't parallel to the router bit.  Also, the repalcement had a defect in the same attachnet where the adjustment bolt interfered with the locking bolt but I was able to make an adjustment to make that one work.

Other than that minor problem, its a great little laminate trimmer for the price.  If I didn't have to go back to exchange a punch where I goofed and got the wrong one, I wouldn't have bothered to take the first one back.  With flush trim router bits, the laminate trimming guide probably won't even get used.

Don

Title: Re: Inlay Stuffs
Post by Hana Lima Ia on Oct 17th, 2009 at 11:02am
Those handmade dremel bases are great! 

A bit late (7 years), but this is how the installed and finished Taro inlay turned out:



Looks like a sticker someone put on there!  :P


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