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Message started by hapakid on Jan 26th, 2004 at 11:07am

Title: rosettes and purfling
Post by hapakid on Jan 26th, 2004 at 11:07am
I've just put on my first binding and made my first rosette and I'm ready to give up.  It's hard to make the binding uniform and tight all the way around.  Rosettes look good but it's easy to tear out some part of the marquetry while sanding.
Does anyone make purfling or rosettes by putting dye into glue and just pouring it into the channel, then sanding it off later?
Jesse Tinsley

Title: Re: rosettes and purfling
Post by achock on Jan 28th, 2004 at 8:01am
I know what you mean Jesse.  Now here is an area where we need a good jig.  There are a few out there, but the ones I've seen are cumbersome and don't really do a lot for you.  In the end it comes down to finesse and even with practice mistakes do happen.  There is a shattered uke downstairs right now...the product of Sunday's binding demonstration gone wrong.  It is a little discouraging to see that happen to someone who has been doing it for years.  :-/   We will have to think of a better way...

The dye into glue is a great effect.  Try using acrylic resin, like they use for surfboards.  There are pigments you can add to it for almost any color.

Title: Re: rosettes and purfling
Post by Jon Y on Jan 28th, 2004 at 7:22pm
Jesse
If you are making your rosette out of wood and are having trouble shaping your circle try using very thin cynoacrylate (super glue or hot stuff). Cover the area you are going to cut out withthe stuff and let it soak for about a minute  and then use the activator to set it off. It should make your wood more consistant and less likely to chip. Oh yeah some waxed paper under your work should keep it from sticking to the table.
Hope this helps
Jon

Title: Re: rosettes and purfling
Post by hapakid on Jan 29th, 2004 at 7:34am
Mahalo Jon and Asa for the tips. I need a lot more practice and a way to make my wood binding thinner so it will bend easier. So much to learn! Jesse Tinsley

Title: Re: rosettes and purfling
Post by ukeman on Feb 19th, 2004 at 3:20pm
aloha Hapakid...hey Jessie this one is for you...will be right nice and more of what you are thinking by way of rosettes. The product is called "inlace" and your local Woodcraft supplier has it...kinda expensive like 30.00 or so for a pint but thats alot. The stuff works like resin...its a powder and when mixed with catalyst turns into awesome colors like stone mosaic and turquoise... lots of colors , from jet black to white to  colored marbles...now all ya gotta do is channel your rosette...and mix a small batch up and pour away...sandable and right nice...many guitar makers use this product...looks like granite.....and seems like a good way for you to try one...scrap piece first...laters  ukeman

Title: Re:Inlace....brand name?
Post by Kamano Flores on Feb 21st, 2004 at 6:26pm
Ukeman

I was just out looking for some of the "Inlace" that you were talking about....hoooooo really humbug hea on da mainland looking fo da kine.   You folks get one brand name or place to call fo find dis stuff.  I wen aks and day wen give me da lolo look...hmmmm  so ...kokua me an see if you can fine one brand name or whateva....

Mahalo's
Kamano (lost in da desert of Arizona)

Title: Re: rosettes and purfling
Post by jony on Feb 21st, 2004 at 7:17pm
Kamano I also was wondering about this inlace also so I did a search on "inlace" and found this site www.turtlefeathers.com  they have pics and accessories some kind of filler to add bulk to the product and a couple of other goodies
Hope this helps BTW they don't have really good examples of how to use it just what it looks like
Jon

Title: Re: Inlace
Post by Kamano Flores on Feb 22nd, 2004 at 3:57pm
Mahalo's to you Jony ..I wen to da site and get plenty info....ehhh save dis one fo the group...

I goin try'em and give you one update kine.  

Mahalo
Kamano

Title: Re: rosettes and purfling
Post by vicki chock on Mar 4th, 2004 at 2:30pm
aloha all you guys!

da inlace stuffs can be found at Woodcraft Supply Shop..dey get one catalogue if no mo one store by you.

lots of buiders is using dis product...da inlays loks unreal...laters   v.chock

Title: Re: rosettes and purfling
Post by Kyle Igarashi on Mar 4th, 2004 at 6:53pm
Aloha,
  I've tried this product(INLACE). It's really easy to use. Almost like using epoxy. I used it for my rosette. Just make your channel,  add your purflings, mix the inlace (part "A" and part "B") fill in the channel. Let dry, then sand flat. Pretty neat stuff. I've never tried to add crushed shell in it, think it'll look pretty neat. Have fun with the inlace, I did.
                                                              Aloha,          
                                                                Zig  

Title: Re: rosettes and purfling
Post by RCHawaii on Jun 14th, 2004 at 11:51pm
Woodcraft of Hawaii was sold out about 2 weeks ago when I went, somebody must have put the word out. :D

I still have yet to use it, but I certainly plan to. Turtlefeathers.com was a nice site-plenty of info.

Title: Re: rosettes and purfling
Post by John_Mayes on Jun 15th, 2004 at 3:28am
I use a laminate trimmer attached to a curcle cutting jig I made.  I have one for the soundhole and one for the rosette.  I use it with a spiral downcut bit.  Works great and I never get tearout.  If you like I can take a pic of it.  If you have a laminate trimmer already it would be just a tiny bit of work and a $10 router bit at www.routerbits.com (they use whiteside router bits which I think are the best router bits made)

Title: Re: rosettes and purfling
Post by RCHawaii on Jun 15th, 2004 at 1:06pm
John, now how could we say no :D

Title: Re: rosettes and purfling
Post by John_Mayes on Jun 15th, 2004 at 2:08pm
haha.. well it is really basic... of course somtimes easy ideas are the good ones.. I use a much more in depth drill press rosette cutter that cuts multiple rosettes at the same time, but for my ukes just one ring it is simple... I'll snap a pic and post it...  Prepared NOT to be in awe :)


Title: Re: rosettes and purfling
Post by John_Mayes on Jun 21st, 2004 at 4:37am


Title: Re: rosettes and purfling
Post by Murray Irvin on Mar 19th, 2005 at 5:36am
???

I've just started building my first uke.  A Kasha Concert and I want to do an abalone rosette.  Is it customary to use purfling?  If so, do I put in the purflings first?  I would appreciate any help.

Title: Re: rosettes and purfling
Post by ukeman on Mar 25th, 2005 at 10:47am
aloha murray...ok jes to make sure we are on the same track: You want to install a abalone rosette and have the inner and outer borders framed with purflin materials?

Ok ...I would first size the abalone material to width and both purflin thickness es to come up with an overall channel width to accomodate the combined materials.
example: 1/8th in. abalone and (2) 1/32nd purflins will toal 3/16th width.

Choose appropriate width router bit.
Make a test cut on scrap and dryfit all three materials into routed test rosettle shape. Make sure it all fits!

I install the outer or inner purflin strip first. Bend around outer rim and hold in place with a series of push pins, tight to the walls of the routed edge. When completely fit wick in viscous super glue while pins are in place...after a minute or so you can remove pins and work on the opposite edge inner purflins in the same manner.

Now you can insert abalone strips between purflin rings and work on mating end cuts oer each abalone piece. When complete, make sure all is tight and cool....apply super glue onto abalone sections and around inner and outer purflins wings..let dry....scrape and level.

Tips:
Put a piece of wax paper under soundboard..super glue is ultra viscous and will seep into the pin hjoles and stick soundboard to work surface...Surprise!

Test the abalone, and purflins and super glue on scrap..some super glues will halo sitka or engelmann a slight yellow...not real cool. Test first!

Make your routes a bit deep...make your soundboard a bit thick...you can level from the top to sjowcase the rosette...turn over sound board and sand from bottom side to acheive working thickness es and then do your interior bracings.

Go slow   laters  ukeman

Title: Re: rosettes and purfling
Post by msrvfx on May 6th, 2005 at 12:40pm
has anyone run on to a source that sells ready made rosettes for uke size soundholes?

Has anyone tried doing their own roll-laminations for rosettes?
What I mean is, take a round dowel, tube, etc. the inner diameter you want, and then lay up layer over layer of materials until you have built it up to the thickess you want. Then take the lamination (tube) form out, then bandsaw off slices of the rosettes (cross section of tube).
Seems like most people try to build one rosette at a time, but this would allow to make up a length of rosette lamination that could be sliced off as needed.

Appreciate the info.

Mark in Portland

Title: Re: rosettes and purfling
Post by Road_Toad on May 6th, 2005 at 6:11pm
Hi Mark,

I haven't done a rosette using your method, but I do build up a block and bandsaw them off. Are you builing a rosette with sticks? I've only done them in solid wood, but the way I do it is to cut wedges of wood at a 45 degree angle and glue them up so that the grain radiates out like the spokes of a wheel. Then I take a Dremmel rotary tool with a router base and rosette cutter (using the Stewmac variety) and I cut down to the thickness I want to make the rosette. I then slice it off on my bandsaw. You can do them one at a time and vary the rosette size based on your soundhole size. Here's a link to a picture-

http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/bc/41bb3026_c957/bc/Ukulele/Morning+Wood/005M/005M+macassar+rosette.jpg?BC7_DfCBN8ioKxnE

The other thing is I had to do was drill a couple new mounting holes for the rosette cutting attachment to enable diameters less than 3"- I think I can get down to about 1 3/4" with the modification. Here's a link to the picture of the Dremmel set up.

http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/bc/41bb3026_c957/bc/Ukulele/Morning+Wood/005M/MW005+rosette+A1.jpg?BC7_DfCBQzDh.ocr

Owen

Title: Re: rosettes and purfling
Post by msrvfx on May 7th, 2005 at 1:14pm
Thank for the info Owen.

I was thinking of the purfling kind of look, but I have seen some really beautiful  solid wood or the wedge design that I really likes too. Could open the links you offered though. thanks again.

Mark

Title: Re: rosettes and purfling
Post by ukeman on May 9th, 2005 at 1:26pm
aloha mark!

i too am of the traditional log cabin rosette log design glue-up and then slicing finished log into appropriate thickness pieces. i lay up the log, row by row, following my design that is drawn on grapph paper....currently my inlays are whatever since i oftentimes do not have a soundhole on the soundboard but side ports, ergo my designs on the soundboard are more like inlaid marquetry or free form stencil cut-outs.

back to your question: i did attend a class years ago where the principal speaker was romanillos and he described how he made his rosette design that looks like arched columns in a circle.His method is direct lamination, also row by row. He glued up the first row design and wrapped it around a specific diameter pipe, wrapped with taped wax paper, on pipe twixt pipe and first row! He then proceeds row by row until his completed design. The pipe is removed and the rosette tube squared and then cut like salami pieces for his signatured rosette design. May take him a week or so but then he has enough for a few years.i would imagine proper registration of rows in the nut! also bear in mind that the rosette tube is not a complete circle but with a gap that will hide under the fingerboard. the challenge it seems would be proper registration of each row so as not to screw up the design on subsequent rows. guess a heat blanket with plumbers straps would work right nice to clamp each row.The bend sholud be easy as all the components will be vertically aligned...anyhow   good luck and let us know if you preceed.   laters ukeman

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