Hana Lima 'Ia - Thickness Sander Plans

Dominator

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Re: Thickness Sander Plans
Reply #30 - May 21^st, 2005 at 5:11pm

Mark,
Looks like you have been doing lots of homework in prep for your sander project. I really like your idea of using the pipe. I think if will be tricky to get the discs epoxied inside keeping everything aligned. But very doable.

I am curious as to why you don't like velcro idea. Seems like a lot of extra work to cut the slits for the sandpaper and to make the fastening system. Woodmaster makes the best commercial sanders around and they all use the hook and loop system. You can literally change paper in about 3 minutes. Let us know how you make out.
Dominator

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Hideo Guest	Re: Thickness Sander Plans Reply #31 - May 27^th, 2005 at 4:11am Aloha I could make Thickness Sander. I referenced Dominator's website. Thank you for Dominator ! Photographs are in my homepage, however only Japanese only. http://www.nasu-net.or.jp/~htezuka/
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Dominator Junior Uke Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 64	Re: Thickness Sander Plans Reply #32 - Jun 2^nd, 2005 at 6:53pm Hideo, Great job on your sander. I can't read Japanese so I don't know if you say or not but what is the table surface made of? Looks nice and slick. Dominator
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Magnolia Member Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 1 Tochigi Japan	Re: Thickness Sander Plans Reply #33 - Jun 17^th, 2005 at 6:05pm Dominator, Thank you again. I chose material for the table top Acrylics board. However, since I do not understand the good press method for TOP, glue can be seen like a spot. This machine is working satisfactory for accuracy. Hideo
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unkabob

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Re: Thickness Sander Plans
Reply #34 - Apr 12^th, 2007 at 5:53am

Does anyone know a source to find sanding-speeds?
Running too fast will soften resins in the wood and blind the paper. Sanding too slow will tear the grit from the paper. There will be a preferred range for each grit size and wood type.
Knowing this would allow you to select drum speed (pulleys) to optimize sander efficiency.

Still can't find a 5/8 shaft.

Bob

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Don_Orgeman

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Re: Thickness Sander Plans
Reply #35 - Apr 24^th, 2007 at 10:56am

My Jet 6X48 benchtop belt sander runs at 2256 square feet per minute, therefore the the belt is travelling at 4512 feet per minute, which seems to be a good number. The disc sander on this unit spins at 1724 RPM, and the disc diameter is 9 inches. Therefore, the outer edge of the disc is travelling at 48,773 inches per minute (9 X Pi).

There is a great set of drawings for a thickness sander in the Shop Notes Issue 86 (March/April 2006). You might be able to order a back issue from them at shopnotes.com, or find a copy in a library. This thickness sander has a sandpaper belt drive to move the wood under the drum and a 5 inch diameter sanding drum which handles up to 16 inch widths. If you make large guitars (or may in the future), I would suggest adding a few inches to the width to handle these tops/backs with some working room. This sander is designed to be driven by your table saw with a 5 inch pully installed instead of the blade. I would suggest using a link belt upgrade and light belt tension if you choose this option, or better yet build a base for the unit and add a dedicated motor. Why risk damaging the arbor on an expensive table saw to save the cost of a motor.

I know that I saw an article in one of my woodworking magazines in the past talking about sanding belt speed, but I couldn't find it when I needed the info. If I locate it in the future, will pass the info along.

I am new to this site, and the info you are posting is great. I like the concept of builder helping each other. I will be making my first uke soon, but have built guitars in the past. Some things are the same, and some are very different.

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unkabob

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Re: Thickness Sander Plans
Reply #36 - May 5^th, 2007 at 12:22pm

Don:
Thanks for the numbers.
It looks like four thousand feet per minute is a reasonable top-end. This means that I will have to choose pulleys to gear-up from 1125 rpm to 2600 rpm using a six inch drum.

I have my 5/8 shaft and I have begun looking at jobsites around town for PVC water-line (thick-wall). I can also look for scrap to build a fretboard radiusing sander block.

Have you figured out how to attach the sandpaper to the drum? I have been asking about the velcro system and nobody has heard about it here.

stay tuned.
Bob

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Don_Orgeman

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Re: Thickness Sander Plans
Reply #37 - May 6^th, 2007 at 6:31am

Bob:

I have not built my thickness sander yet, but have been thinking about one for several years. When I do, I will build one that will accomodate a 16 inch wide guitar top as well as the tenor uke I am now starting building forms for.

I favor using 3/4" MDF disks cut with a circle cutter on a drill press and stacked and glued onto the shaft (after widening the center hole) over PVC or aluminum drums. The reason for this is that with a MDF drum mounted in the finished thickness sander, the drum can be trued to be totally parallel to the table by using a piece of flat MDF with course sandpaper glued to the surface to sand down the rorating drum to a smoothe flat surface before a sanding belt is attached. This would be more difficult to do with a PVC drum, but not impossible.

The ShopNotes plans show a wedge shaped key cut into two of the disks (one at each end of the sanding drum). One end disk is glued to the drum, and the other is free to rotate and secured to the drum with screws. The plan uses 3" wide sanding belt which is spiral wound onto the drum. Both ends of the belt have to be tapered from about 5/8 inch to three inches and the length of taper is dependant on the diameter of your drum. This is why one disk is not fixed, so it can be rotated to capture the other end of the tapered belt. I think that spraying the drum with 3M Super 77 Multipurpose Adhesive before spiral winding the belt may help kepp the belt inplace and avoid belt loosenig during sanding.

I'm not sure whether a sandpaper belt conveyor system is worth the effort to construct one. I have come to the conclusing that I want the sanding table under the drum to be perfectly flat and very rigid. Putting an adjustment mechanism into the table asselbly is asking for unwanted movement in the table under the drum. If a sanding belt is used as a conveyor system, I recommend that the conveyor rollers and adjustment mechanism be added to the ends of the table not included internally as the ShopNotes drawings show.

For those of you looking for a low cost source for formica for this use, look for sink coutouts at Lowes, Home Depot, or Menards. If you can't get them there, call a shop that installs counter tops.

I looked at the ShopNotes web page and they do not list back issues being available. They want to sell you a full years volume instead of a single magazine. But, the plans are available from plansnow.com for $9.95 for download. Look for plans DN3078. I am not trying to sell anyone on this source, but I did find them the most helpful as a starting point for my own thought process. I like the idea of building the sanding assembly seperate from the stand/motor mount assembly, and attaching the two with screws or clamps. Easire to move and store when not in use.

Lets face it, as hobby builders we are not building a sander to handle thousands of tops in its lifetime. Therefore, making it more complex than needed only adds cost with no benefit other than bragging rights to having built a better jig than the other builders

Enjoy, and I hope you find these thoughts helpful

Don

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Treetop

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Re: Thickness Sander Plans
Reply #38 - May 6^th, 2007 at 9:43pm

For what it is worth, the Woodmaster brand sanders use a 6 inch steel drum, they use the velcro sandpaper and the drums turn at 750 rpm, which they say is what 3M recommends for the sandpaper.

Wish I could afford one of theirs, they look quite solidly built.

I want to make one about 18 inches wide. My concern here is the power. I hope to use a 1.5 hp 1725 rpm motor, on 220v.

I also find these to be fairly expensive new, like $185 with shipping, I think eBay may have to be the answer. I do have some motors that I left at a friends shop about 17 years ago, he still has them and more, told me to come on over, so I hope there is something there I can use.

If you have to buy a motor for almost $200, and add all the other stuff, it makes the Jet/Performax 10-20inch model look pretty affordable.

I downloaded the plan from Shopnotes and it is pretty nice. I do agree the conveyor looks like it could wind up taking longer to build and adjust than the rest of the sander. I am thinking of a conveyance board, like a board that is flat and has a wide sanding belt of about 80 grit fitted around it, that rides on rails on the side of the table for instrument tops, you could even have a long handle on the back side and set it in place walk around and just pull it through. The table could be used without it for longer pieces.

I am not planning to build this for a while, just looking at the feasibility. Maybe someone will have the jet sander on sale. Cheesy

I did buy an aluminum tube, 4" ID, 4.5" OD from someone on eBay. I have a lathe so I can make some trued discs to go into the tube. I also like the idea of the velcro paper, makes it easier to change the grit quickly and it keeps the paper cooler, which will make it last longer.

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Murray

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Re: Thickness Sander Plans
Reply #39 - May 7^th, 2007 at 5:25pm

I built a thickness sander using the plans from Moritz Designs. It cost me around $300.00 to make it but it works great! I can sand a set of tops, backs and sides to the thickness I want in about an hour, compared to hours by hand. The thickness is consistent and I haven't cracked a side while bending since. It's 22" wide so I can sand guitar tops and backs with it. I made the drum out of poplar disks and trued it up with a piece or 60 grit floor sanding paper nailed to a 2 X 4. I used a 1 1/2 hp motor that I bought from Harbor Freight for a round $125.00, that spins at 3200 rpm. It works great!

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Don_Orgeman

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Re: Thickness Sander Plans
Reply #40 - May 9^th, 2007 at 4:06am

About drum speed:

Just read an ad for the Performax 16-32 Plus Drum Sander. It turns the 5 inch diameter drum at 1725 rpm by a direct drive to the motor. This results in a travel speed for the sandpaper of about 27,000 inches per minute. Since we are attempting to produce the same results as these machines, maybe this is a better target number to shoot for. The good news is we can just switch out pulleys until we get the results we want.

I haven't given up on building my own sander yet, even though my wife offered to buy a Performax 10-20 for me.Has anyone out there used the Performax 10-20 for large guitar tops? Does sanding the thin tops work well when the top is shitched and the top is sanded in two passes, or does the different direction of feed for the left/right half of the top show in the results?

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konacat

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Re: Thickness Sander Plans
Reply #41 - May 9^th, 2007 at 8:45am

Don,

A number of people at the Official Luthiers Forum use the Performax 10-20 and like it. If you go to the OLF forum and search " 10-20 " you can read a number of posting and they should clear up any questions you have. Yes, these are being used by guitar builders. It seems the big hints are keep your cuts small, keep your sand paper clean, and the more dust collection the better. This combination makes for the cleanest cuts and longer sand paper life.
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/default.asp

Good Luck

Philip

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msrvfx

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Re: Thickness Sander Plans
Reply #42 - May 23^rd, 2007 at 10:21am

Hello All,
Hi Ukeman and Dominator. Sorry to be missing for so long. Since my search for information last I built my own drum thickness sander. Posted info about it on MIMF website and got contacted by GuitarMaker Magazine to do a story. Lots of pictures. Got a great five page article about the sander. It works like a champ with a lot of control. I believe it is considerably easier to build than one with a wood abrasive cylinder.

I do not have plans drawn up, as I built it as a one off project. Check with them for a back issue.
Mark in Portland

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Dominator Junior Uke Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 64	Re: Thickness Sander Plans Reply #43 - Jun 1^st, 2007 at 7:43am Hi Mark, Welcome back. The Guitar Maker magazine site has very little info in the back orders section of the website. Can you tell us what issue and when it was published so we can hone in on it? Thanks, Dominator
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unkabob

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Re: Thickness Sander Plans
Reply #44 - Jul 3^rd, 2007 at 12:44pm

In searching for a hook and loop system, I found a site that sells drums and some plans. The plans can be viewed on-line but are not thickness-controlled drum sanders. Seeing what other people have done is always useful.
stockroomsupply.com
Go to products and click on sander plans.
Their stuff is a bit pricey but its in one place. For Canadians it avoids a lot of BS at the border.

Worth a look for builders.

Bob

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